For safety concerns just use the source tank valve for on/off control…To fill each 1 lb. bottle more completely simply put those containers in a refrigerator or even a freezer for a few minutes AND put the 20/40 lb. FULL tank in hot water and/or in the Sun…The key here is to maximize the pressure in the source tank and minimize it in the receiving 1 lb. bottle allowing for more propane to transfer before the pressure equalizes…I’ve been filling these little bottles for years using this type coupler and while they may not get 100% filled as when new they can reach 80-90% with regularity when the above steps are taken…Keep in mind NO Propane tank is completely filled anyway or at least it shouldn’t be to allow for excessive heat expansion when full..
Even if trying to refill in a freezing or below environment simply heating the 20/40 lb. bottle up by leaving it in a heated indoors for a few hours and/or in hot water will help tremendously to get more transferred…
When you get tanks refilled commercially the source has pump assisted pressure so this always allows for a complete fill…
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This review is from: Mr. Heater F276172 1-Pound Disposable Propane Tank Refill Adapter (Lawn & Patio)
I have had this or a similar product for several years now. I live in the mountains, and go camping a lot, and sometimes set up camps and leave, going to work, backpacking, etc, and dont return until night or even a few days. I had two small bulk containers, one for a propane lantern, and one for a little heater and both were stolen out of my closed tent. Since the small refillable propane tanks (small bulk tanks cost more than the regular 5 gallon bulk tank) are expensive, I switched back to the 16 oz type disposable type. I have messed with all different ways of refilling these babies, and here are my suggestions and results.
1. If you only camp once a year (or twice), just spend the $3 each on a couple new 16 oz disposables and be done with it. If you set up “big hunting type camps” you are probably going to have a big bulk tank or 2 anyway, with a propane tree on it or some similar setup for lanters, cooking, etc. or more than likely, have a trailer, and you probably don’t need advice from me anyway.
2. Though you can get a complete (and even a little over) fill by pulling the little “bicycle valve” overflow protection valve while filling, these tanks are not really ment for that, and frequently enough (one out of 4 tanks maybe, my experience … maybe one out of every 6) this valve, once pulled out, will leak, and the tank and refill will be useless. Even though the tanks are filled all the way, I do not recommend this due to the higher percentage of leakers.
3. I recommend following the instructions, which requires putting the bulk 5 gal. tank in the sun for a few hours (let it get nice and warm), and the little 16 oz tanks in the freezer, using temperature differential as a pump. Then, grab one tank from the freezer and attach to the refill device/bulk tank, make sure everything is decently tight, and open the valve on the bulk tank (which is upside down – I usually do it on the tailgate of my Toyota Tacoma). You can hear the propane going into the small tank, and when it seems like its not going to get any fuller – usually around 45 seconds to a minute, shut of the big tank valve and unscrew the little one, and go and get another nice cold one from the freezer (little propane tank, not beer). When I first started refilling them, I weighed them to see how much propane I got in the little tank. When I was a newbee, and didn’t know what I was doing, and didn’t have enought temperature difference, I wouldn’t get hardly any liquid propane in. Then I learned the “pull out the bicycle valve trick” and found I could fill them even a little more full than new, by weight on a postal scale. Now and finally, I just put the big tank in the sun, and the little ones in the freezer, and I don’t weigh them anymore, but my “picking them up” scale tells me that they are probably somewhere about 1/2 full, or a little more. This is enough for me, for just one single mantle lantern and one propane stove. Usually they don’t leak if you don’t mess with the overpressure protection valve.
Lastly, a couple things to keep in mind (principles of propane refill) – propane is always at a constant pressure, at a certain temperature. As some of the gas escapes, or is burned, the pressure that would drop is refilled by propane gas which has expaned from some of the liquid. Therefore, if both tanks were equal in temperature, and you hooked one to the other and opened the valve, (assuming the big tank is upside down so the liquid proane is comming out and not gas – if you refill with just gas, you might get 30 seconds worth of gas into the little tank, which is basically nothing and not what you are looking for) the smaller one would only get maybe 5% or 10% full, untill both tanks were under the same pressure. The object is to get as much “liquid” propane in. The more temperature differential, the more liquid you will get in, because the pressure will be lower in the cold tank. Of course, the bicycle valve trick works great (wear gloves on your right hand, because the propane gas is cold when it comes out/evaporates, and no smoking). But, because they weren’t made for that, seem to have a hard time seating themselves again, even when pushed in, etc. Now that I’ve been refilling these little babies for a few years, it seems so quick and easy, and probably saves a few bucks, and is better for the environment not throwing away a decent little tank.
So, summary – yes these work fine, but anticipate only about 1/2 full (or slightly more) small tanks.
Oh, and lastly about the no smoking comment – I stand by that, but propane gas is heavier than air (which is why you can’t use propane appliances in your basement) and goes down when leaking. I’ve had a little leaking tank within 2′ maybe of a flame which was higher and screened, and it didn’t catch, but I was watching it closely, and threw the tank away shortly thereafter. Try that with gasoline fumes, and you will find…
This review is from: Mr. Heater F276172 1-Pound Disposable Propane Tank Refill Adapter (Lawn & Patio)
EDIT: see comment at end regarding a simple means to completely fill the tank.
I don’t generally criticize other reviewers, but I think some of the reviewers here (one and two stars) have gotten this confused with a different product. This device will not “freeze up” your grill, as it does not attach to your grill; and there is no “shut off” valve necessary, because your 20-lb tank already has a shutoff valve. I suspect those reviews are for an adapter to attach a 1-lb tank to an appliance that normally takes a larger tank (which I also have, looks somewhat similar to this, and costs about the same).
A really important safety consideration: tighten the adapter to the big tank with a wrench. When you are removing the 1-lb tank after filling, you want the little tank to detach from the adapter (so the little tank’s valve closes) and not come off with the adapter still on it, in which case the propane inside the little tank is going to blast out. Wrench-tighten the adapter to the big tank, hand-tighten the little tank to the adapter.
Rather than repeat other reviews of this simple (and quite overpriced for what it is, although it will indeed pay for itself) device, I’ll just give a few hints from experience. The sequence of what tank gets connected first is quite important, but not so much for safety as for operation. You will need to put your 1-pounder in the freezer; physics students will note that the 50 or 60 degree F. drop in temperature will create barely enough pressure differential to even start transferring propane form one tank to another, but the secret is that pressurized propane is a liquid so just a little vacuum gets a disproportionately large transfer. But as I discovered…attach the Mr. Heater to the big tank FIRST because if you attach it to the 1-lb bottle as you take it out of the freezer you’ll hear a WHOSH! as air rushes in to fill the vacuum, and you’re not gonna get any propane transferred after that! (Cure: leave with Mr. Heater now attached on counter for several hours while the air inside warms back up, remove Mr. Heater, back to freezer, avoid stupid mistake next time.)
With the outside temperature around 70 F., I can only manage about 1/3 full. Frankly, submerging tanks in hot and freezing salt water is too much effort for me and I suspect for most people too, and I’ll bet most people don’t have a vacuum line to draw a vacuum first. In theory, if you pulled a vacuum on the 1-lb tank you’d wind up filling completely full and that would be downright dangerous, but as a practical matter the propane flashes off as it fills and eliminates the vacuum before it’s completely full – I’ve seen people warning never to fill a tank 100% of the way full but actually it’s impossible to do unless they override the tank’s pressure relief valve (bad). But if getting 2/3-3/4 full takes an ice cream salt bath and a double boiler and a vacuum pump while getting 1/3-1/2 full takes a brief pop in the freezer, I’ll settle for refilling a little more often.
You’ll also hear people say it is illegal to refill or transport refilled tanks. That’s not true, at least on a federal level, where the restriction is on commercial transport for sale or use in support of commerce (and even then, what’s illegal is actually the mis-labeling of the tank, not the refilling – 49 USC 5124 cites 49 USC 5104, which deals with hazardous tank labels). But that doesn’t mean your state agrees, so there could be state or municipal contraints on transport.
EDIT: I discovered an incredibly easy way to fill the tank, with no salt ice, hot water, or magic. READ THIS COMPLETELY BEFORE YOU TRY. Do the cannister-in-the freezer thing and fill it the expected one-third or so up. Don’t put the big tank in any hot water; don’t put the little tank in ice water or an ice cream bucket; don’t stick needles in a Troll doll. Just put the little tank back into the freezer for a few more hours. Now, repeat the filling and you can refill the small tank as full as you want! Which brings me to an important safety disclaimer: while I know from physics it is impossible to truly fill the tank 100.000% because of the evaporated gas inside, by letting the second fill continue until all transfer finished (no more hissing sound), the 1-lb tank was so full that I could not even hear any liquid slooshing inside when shaking the tank. That’s probably DANGEROUSLY full, and I connected it immediately to my BBQ to run some of the propane back out of it. So either do this carefully or don’t do it at all, and remove the tank BEFORE the transfer is completed (in my experiement with a sample size of one, I could hear the transfer clearly slowing down before the hissing completely stopped).
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Used properly it can be very useful and money saving…,
For safety concerns just use the source tank valve for on/off control…To fill each 1 lb. bottle more completely simply put those containers in a refrigerator or even a freezer for a few minutes AND put the 20/40 lb. FULL tank in hot water and/or in the Sun…The key here is to maximize the pressure in the source tank and minimize it in the receiving 1 lb. bottle allowing for more propane to transfer before the pressure equalizes…I’ve been filling these little bottles for years using this type coupler and while they may not get 100% filled as when new they can reach 80-90% with regularity when the above steps are taken…Keep in mind NO Propane tank is completely filled anyway or at least it shouldn’t be to allow for excessive heat expansion when full..
Even if trying to refill in a freezing or below environment simply heating the 20/40 lb. bottle up by leaving it in a heated indoors for a few hours and/or in hot water will help tremendously to get more transferred…
When you get tanks refilled commercially the source has pump assisted pressure so this always allows for a complete fill…
Was this review helpful to you?
|Good but only fills about 1/2 way,
I have had this or a similar product for several years now. I live in the mountains, and go camping a lot, and sometimes set up camps and leave, going to work, backpacking, etc, and dont return until night or even a few days. I had two small bulk containers, one for a propane lantern, and one for a little heater and both were stolen out of my closed tent. Since the small refillable propane tanks (small bulk tanks cost more than the regular 5 gallon bulk tank) are expensive, I switched back to the 16 oz type disposable type. I have messed with all different ways of refilling these babies, and here are my suggestions and results.
1. If you only camp once a year (or twice), just spend the $3 each on a couple new 16 oz disposables and be done with it. If you set up “big hunting type camps” you are probably going to have a big bulk tank or 2 anyway, with a propane tree on it or some similar setup for lanters, cooking, etc. or more than likely, have a trailer, and you probably don’t need advice from me anyway.
2. Though you can get a complete (and even a little over) fill by pulling the little “bicycle valve” overflow protection valve while filling, these tanks are not really ment for that, and frequently enough (one out of 4 tanks maybe, my experience … maybe one out of every 6) this valve, once pulled out, will leak, and the tank and refill will be useless. Even though the tanks are filled all the way, I do not recommend this due to the higher percentage of leakers.
3. I recommend following the instructions, which requires putting the bulk 5 gal. tank in the sun for a few hours (let it get nice and warm), and the little 16 oz tanks in the freezer, using temperature differential as a pump. Then, grab one tank from the freezer and attach to the refill device/bulk tank, make sure everything is decently tight, and open the valve on the bulk tank (which is upside down – I usually do it on the tailgate of my Toyota Tacoma). You can hear the propane going into the small tank, and when it seems like its not going to get any fuller – usually around 45 seconds to a minute, shut of the big tank valve and unscrew the little one, and go and get another nice cold one from the freezer (little propane tank, not beer). When I first started refilling them, I weighed them to see how much propane I got in the little tank. When I was a newbee, and didn’t know what I was doing, and didn’t have enought temperature difference, I wouldn’t get hardly any liquid propane in. Then I learned the “pull out the bicycle valve trick” and found I could fill them even a little more full than new, by weight on a postal scale. Now and finally, I just put the big tank in the sun, and the little ones in the freezer, and I don’t weigh them anymore, but my “picking them up” scale tells me that they are probably somewhere about 1/2 full, or a little more. This is enough for me, for just one single mantle lantern and one propane stove. Usually they don’t leak if you don’t mess with the overpressure protection valve.
Lastly, a couple things to keep in mind (principles of propane refill) – propane is always at a constant pressure, at a certain temperature. As some of the gas escapes, or is burned, the pressure that would drop is refilled by propane gas which has expaned from some of the liquid. Therefore, if both tanks were equal in temperature, and you hooked one to the other and opened the valve, (assuming the big tank is upside down so the liquid proane is comming out and not gas – if you refill with just gas, you might get 30 seconds worth of gas into the little tank, which is basically nothing and not what you are looking for) the smaller one would only get maybe 5% or 10% full, untill both tanks were under the same pressure. The object is to get as much “liquid” propane in. The more temperature differential, the more liquid you will get in, because the pressure will be lower in the cold tank. Of course, the bicycle valve trick works great (wear gloves on your right hand, because the propane gas is cold when it comes out/evaporates, and no smoking). But, because they weren’t made for that, seem to have a hard time seating themselves again, even when pushed in, etc. Now that I’ve been refilling these little babies for a few years, it seems so quick and easy, and probably saves a few bucks, and is better for the environment not throwing away a decent little tank.
So, summary – yes these work fine, but anticipate only about 1/2 full (or slightly more) small tanks.
Oh, and lastly about the no smoking comment – I stand by that, but propane gas is heavier than air (which is why you can’t use propane appliances in your basement) and goes down when leaking. I’ve had a little leaking tank within 2′ maybe of a flame which was higher and screened, and it didn’t catch, but I was watching it closely, and threw the tank away shortly thereafter. Try that with gasoline fumes, and you will find…
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|Works as well as physics permits,
EDIT: see comment at end regarding a simple means to completely fill the tank.
I don’t generally criticize other reviewers, but I think some of the reviewers here (one and two stars) have gotten this confused with a different product. This device will not “freeze up” your grill, as it does not attach to your grill; and there is no “shut off” valve necessary, because your 20-lb tank already has a shutoff valve. I suspect those reviews are for an adapter to attach a 1-lb tank to an appliance that normally takes a larger tank (which I also have, looks somewhat similar to this, and costs about the same).
A really important safety consideration: tighten the adapter to the big tank with a wrench. When you are removing the 1-lb tank after filling, you want the little tank to detach from the adapter (so the little tank’s valve closes) and not come off with the adapter still on it, in which case the propane inside the little tank is going to blast out. Wrench-tighten the adapter to the big tank, hand-tighten the little tank to the adapter.
Rather than repeat other reviews of this simple (and quite overpriced for what it is, although it will indeed pay for itself) device, I’ll just give a few hints from experience. The sequence of what tank gets connected first is quite important, but not so much for safety as for operation. You will need to put your 1-pounder in the freezer; physics students will note that the 50 or 60 degree F. drop in temperature will create barely enough pressure differential to even start transferring propane form one tank to another, but the secret is that pressurized propane is a liquid so just a little vacuum gets a disproportionately large transfer. But as I discovered…attach the Mr. Heater to the big tank FIRST because if you attach it to the 1-lb bottle as you take it out of the freezer you’ll hear a WHOSH! as air rushes in to fill the vacuum, and you’re not gonna get any propane transferred after that! (Cure: leave with Mr. Heater now attached on counter for several hours while the air inside warms back up, remove Mr. Heater, back to freezer, avoid stupid mistake next time.)
With the outside temperature around 70 F., I can only manage about 1/3 full. Frankly, submerging tanks in hot and freezing salt water is too much effort for me and I suspect for most people too, and I’ll bet most people don’t have a vacuum line to draw a vacuum first. In theory, if you pulled a vacuum on the 1-lb tank you’d wind up filling completely full and that would be downright dangerous, but as a practical matter the propane flashes off as it fills and eliminates the vacuum before it’s completely full – I’ve seen people warning never to fill a tank 100% of the way full but actually it’s impossible to do unless they override the tank’s pressure relief valve (bad). But if getting 2/3-3/4 full takes an ice cream salt bath and a double boiler and a vacuum pump while getting 1/3-1/2 full takes a brief pop in the freezer, I’ll settle for refilling a little more often.
You’ll also hear people say it is illegal to refill or transport refilled tanks. That’s not true, at least on a federal level, where the restriction is on commercial transport for sale or use in support of commerce (and even then, what’s illegal is actually the mis-labeling of the tank, not the refilling – 49 USC 5124 cites 49 USC 5104, which deals with hazardous tank labels). But that doesn’t mean your state agrees, so there could be state or municipal contraints on transport.
EDIT: I discovered an incredibly easy way to fill the tank, with no salt ice, hot water, or magic. READ THIS COMPLETELY BEFORE YOU TRY. Do the cannister-in-the freezer thing and fill it the expected one-third or so up. Don’t put the big tank in any hot water; don’t put the little tank in ice water or an ice cream bucket; don’t stick needles in a Troll doll. Just put the little tank back into the freezer for a few more hours. Now, repeat the filling and you can refill the small tank as full as you want! Which brings me to an important safety disclaimer: while I know from physics it is impossible to truly fill the tank 100.000% because of the evaporated gas inside, by letting the second fill continue until all transfer finished (no more hissing sound), the 1-lb tank was so full that I could not even hear any liquid slooshing inside when shaking the tank. That’s probably DANGEROUSLY full, and I connected it immediately to my BBQ to run some of the propane back out of it. So either do this carefully or don’t do it at all, and remove the tank BEFORE the transfer is completed (in my experiement with a sample size of one, I could hear the transfer clearly slowing down before the hissing completely stopped).
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